Charlie Lougheed successful Health Tech entrepreneur and CEO of Axuall joins us to take a look at the emerging blockchain solutions in healthcare. We’re finally getting beyond the hype curve to a place of practical application. Hope you enjoy.
Charlie Lougheed successful Health Tech entrepreneur and CEO of Axuall joins us to take a look at the emerging blockchain solutions in healthcare. We're finally getting beyond the hype curve to a place of practical application. Hope you enjoy.
Bill Russell: 00:00 welcome to This Week in Health It influence where we discuss the influence of technology on health with people who are making it happen. We are the fastest growing podcasts in the health it space. My name is Bill Russel. Recovering healthcare CIO and creator of This Week in Health It a set of podcasts and videos dedicated to developing the next generation of health it leaders. I only say that before every episode. We’re on episode 93 you think I’d have that down by now, but still struggling with it. Anyway, this podcast is brought to you by health lyrics. Have a struggling health care project. You need to go well. Let’s talk, visit health lyrics.com to schedule your free consultation. Today we’re joined by a successful health technology entrepreneur, Charlie Lougheed former co founder of explorers which sold to IBM and now off on another adventure. A Good Morning Charlie and a welcome. Welcome back to the show. I guess it’s been almost a year.
Charlie Loughee: 00:52 Yeah. Hey, good morning bill. Great to be here,
Bill Russell: 00:56 man. It has been a year as has anything changed since the last time we spoke?
Charlie Loughee: 01:01 Uh, I got more gray. Uh, let me think here. I got a kid to college, uh, major stuff like that I guess. Well, yeah, you got to keep a lot of fun this past year. You got a kid through college? Yeah. One to graduate. She just graduated. So we’re excited.
Bill Russell: 01:19 Wow. Now are you, uh, are you one of those people that, so my, my dad was one of those people who was like, hey, when you graduate, you’re done. Get out of the house. Now. My son still lives with us and he’s been graduated for a couple of years now. So are you one of those kick them out or you one of those, come on back and live here for,
Charlie Loughee: 01:36 she wants to get out there pretty fast. So we’re working on, you know, she’s working out of college. I mean, on career plans and what she wants to do next. And, and she’s got a pretty good idea, I think right now she’s really looking at cities and said, Cleveland or Chicago or is it west coast? We’ll see. But uh, you know, it’s an exciting time. I remember that. It’s a little scary too when you go from college right into the real world. Uh, I’m not sure, uh, all the universities really prepare kids for that. I’m not sure you can. Uh, so he’s a little bit of a shock to the system. I think we see it in a lot of, a lot of other parents, uh, kids. And so it’s going to be exciting though, you know, the, the, the world of opportunities so much different than when when I came out of college, you look at how, how much things have advanced. In some ways it’s a little bit of a scarier world, particularly with automation, but in other areas it’s, it’s just like there’s a whole new realm, uh, particularly around things. You know, we can talk about blockchain today, but things like, like a AI and automation in general. So it’s gonna be pretty, pretty neat for, I think.
Bill Russell: 02:41 Yeah, no, that’s, that’s exciting. It’s a, it is an exciting time. She take after you, is she a technologist or she in another field?
Charlie Loughee: 02:50 She’s entrepreneurial-ism. That was their major. Uh, well one of them, but she has really, uh, not focused on technology. It’s funny. I mean, she’s technology savvy, but she does not, she doesn’t want to be a nerd like your dad. That’s okay. I’m fine with that.
Bill Russell: 03:06 That’s fine. I was, I was a consultant for 20 years and my son, when he, when he got out, I said, so what do you want to do? He goes, all I know is I don’t want to be a consultant. Okay. So we’ll see. We’ll see what happens. Our Two main topics for today’s discussion. Our Pr, it’s going to be primarily black chain, but we’re also going to delve into emerging technology and how you determined what the technologies are. And you and I had a good conversation a year ago on blockchain. Things have evolved a little bit, but let’s, we always have to set the baseline for this because, um, it’s still a new technology. Some people are familiar, some people aren’t. So give us the, you know, the quick and dirty, what is blockchain and, and you know, what’s it going to be used for? Well let’s start with what it is.
Charlie Loughee: 03:53 Yeah. You know, I think there’s just seems to be still like mystery in what block chain is, it’s pretty simple. It’s a database, right? It’s, it’s a, it’s a way to store data. Uh, what’s even more interesting about it, I guess, uh, maybe it’s less interesting is it like in earlier database quite a while and you’ve been able to take a database and update it, uh, make updates to not just inserts to tables, black chain isn’t like that blockchain is basically like a ledger. It says, okay, I’m going to allow you to write a, an event and I’m going to store it. And uh, we get, and the technology is such that, uh, it provides the ability to track among multiple nodes whether or not that data has ever changed or, uh, or been modified or tampered with. That immutability is something that other databases obviously have.
Charlie Loughee: 04:42 But when you spread that across many nodes that different organizations participate in, you have the ability now to be able to check that and audit that against, of many, many third parties. And so there’s advantage of that. I think, you know, there’s, there’s also the advantage within blockchain of being able to digitally sign these events when they get, when they get written to the blockchain and whoever that entity is, who signs that you can go back and, and see that that entity was indeed who you thought it was. Uh, and that’s, and that’s very secure technology. Again, not new technology, but combined. It makes a big difference. It, you know, there’s another element I think of blockchain that’s really important and that’s, uh, it’s ability to have a degree of digital sovereignty, uh, over those that participate in the process. Meaning you in many cases, you don’t really store the bulk of the data on the blockchain.
Charlie Loughee: 05:34 You still references to that data with, uh, ways to ensure that those references and that data has never changed wherever it’s resides. And so, uh, that creates an opportunity for whether you’re a patient or an employer or a consumer, to be able to say, well, I’m going to provide access to this data, uh, only when I see fit and if I want to turn that access off to that data, I can. And, uh, and so I think that’s something that’s really important. And I think the last one is it relates to health care is the fact that this isn’t a technology that sits behind any one organizations firewall. It’s distributed in. So in that, in that respect, it sort of creates this neutrality that makes it easier to, for in some cases, competing organizations, payers and providers and you know, where there are competing incentives, uh, to participate. So it’s, you know, it’s, it’s nothing technologically that new, in fact there’s a lot of the old stuff, it feels a little bit like back to the future, uh, but, uh, how they combined it into that recipe I think is what, what makes it unique.
Bill Russell: 06:36 Interesting. So the words we’ve used before, I’m not going to get all these distributed a immutable record, um, smart contracts, um, you, you covered maybe a couple others that I may not have there, but those, those are the three main ones or are there other, other attributes of, of black chain?
Charlie Loughee: 06:55 Well, I mean, I think just the thing that people always think of is it digital currency component of it. Um, and uh, you know, you don’t have to have a digital currency to have blockchain. In fact, a lot of the implementations that we’re seeing don’t even involve a digital currency or if it does it’s way behind the scenes and nobody would ever know it’s there. It’s just for transacting behind the scenes. And the other area you just mentioned, Bill, is smart contracts. You don’t necessarily have to have smart contracts. In fact, you can run a lot of your smart contracts off the chain if you want, where your, you know, business rules if you will. Uh, but in some cases it does make a lot of sense to have that smart contract, run on that chain. And that’s where I think, you know, you’ll see a lot of different implementations of it where you have very lightweight, smart, simple contracts for everything from a consumer to, uh, having smart contracts that are smart enough to know, okay, if I one autonomous vehicle passes another vehicle in that other vehicle pulls away.
Charlie Loughee: 07:53 So it allows it to do it. There’s some kind of a transaction fee that goes to the vehicle that yields, uh, and uh, and that’s just another good example of a interesting smart contracts. So, but, you know, they’re, they’re, they’re still in their infancy, smart contracts once, once they get running, yet it’s pretty darn hard to stop them. Um, and in some cases, if they’re not developed properly, they will go on forever. So you gotta you have to pay attention to them. And I think that’s why the whole industry is just taking one step at a time with smart contracts.
Bill Russell: 08:25 That’s interesting. So, and the other thing, digital currency kind of almost confuses the issue. I mean, it gets so much press around this that people think, well, you know, we’re not, we’re not going to accept bitcoin at our hospitals, that not that important. But there’s an awful lot of use cases in healthcare and a, you and I went back and forth a little bit on the last time you were on the show and I think things have matured maybe a little bit. Um, where do you think blockchain has the, you know, the most potential near term and longterm within healthcare?
Charlie Loughee: 08:58 Yeah. You know, I think one of the areas that that we’re most excited about is what we call digital proof or digitized proof. Uh, it’s a, it’s a big challenge in really every single industry, not just health care. So let me give some examples. Uh, it, for thousands of years, business has been transacted based on one entity makes an assertion about something, another entity has to accept that assertion. Now in many cases, a third party comes in between them and verifies that. And that’s something that you see a lot of in manufacturing, in transportation and logistics in a financial services. And you also see it in health care, particularly around credentialing and for that matter, any kind of claims remediation. So this process has been going on a long time because I think it’s something that’s interesting. Uh, so you know as we look at that though, that process is very expensive in healthcare today.
Charlie Loughee: 09:57 Your typical health system will take anywhere between 90 to 120 days to get a practitioner or a physician through the entire credentialing process. While a lot of this has been automated and systems like MD staff and Morrissey and others have made the process moves smoother, there are still the external third parties that in many cases have to be waited upon to be able to give that, that affirmative answer that yes, that physician worked during these time periods or yes, that that particular a credential, It has not been revoked, has not been suspended or whatever it might be, and what’s interesting in healthcare is that can cost a lot of money over time. There’s not only the wait time, the operational costs time, but as healthcare becomes more and more scarce because of the supply and demand issues, we’re going to see the need to be able to put a physician or any practitioner for that matter into a billable position as quickly as possible because time is money.
Charlie Loughee: 10:57 And where the average physician, when an average physician bills around $7,500 a day, that adds up pretty quickly. Uh, and so we think there’s a lot of money at stake. It’s interesting. These are the kinds of things that beginning to bubble up to the CFO office as they look at ways to drive better margin, uh, particularly as they sort of get squeezed from, from the, uh, from the payers. And in some cases, rightfully so, right? Because we need to figure out how to reduce, reduce costs. But administrative is a, is a big component of that. Arguably a quarter to a third between waste administrative and a blockchain, you know, offers a big opportunity to, to correct some of that.
Bill Russell: 11:38 Yeah. So that’s a, that’s an interesting because you did a lot of times when people talk about blockchain, they talk about disrupting healthcare, but you’re not talking about disrupting healthcare. You’re talking about taking an existing process and existing system within healthcare and making it much more efficient and really streamlining it and reducing the cycle times to get a physician active within the system?
Charlie Loughee: 11:58 Yeah, yeah. I mean, exactly. I mean, I think it’s always, I think the media looks at this and said that it’s always sort of sexy to talk about how blockchain or any technologies can completely changed the way we do things. Um, the problem with that, especially a new technology that’s got all, all this sort of baggage around it right now with some of the negative press around crypto currency, which again, you don’t need cryptocurrency for blockchain, but it’s still there, right? Uh, if the, the technology hasn’t been fully proven in production environments yet, so to take a technology and completely disrupt an industry as large as health care is something, it’s kind of like the third rail. Like nobody wants to touch that right now. But if you, if you focus in blockchain and areas where everybody’s suffering, right? Uh, and I gave the example of credentialing. That’s one of them. I think to some degree you have supply chain challenges, you have a claims verification, Challenges. These are the things that cost everybody money and in some cases, uh, limit access to care. I think in those kinds of situations, those win-win, you’ll see it adopted more frequently. And again, there’s not a lot that’s, that’s revolutionary about that is just making the existing process move faster.
Bill Russell: 13:13 Do you think, we’ll see, I mean, you talked about talking about claims, you talked about supply chain, you’ve talked about credentialing. Uh, do you think we’ll see anything in the, in the area of, uh, data exchange and identity management? Or is that, is that one of those things that’s pretty far off yet?
Charlie Loughee: 13:31 No, I don’t think it’s going to be that far off. I mean I think, I think you have to, um, I think we do have to accept and, and, and take their lessons from the past, uh, with regards to HIE and the challenges that health information exchange, uh, has, has brought to the industry. And, uh, and, and so they are out there right there. Obviously some good examples of HIE in regions, certain regions words it’s work, but it’s because of a lot of cooperation. Uh, there wasn’t a business model that a lot of cases or, or limited business model around that kind of exchange, but I think that’s going to begin to change over time. Again, we, we sort of look at the, the patient record as a is a very important problem to solve, but we also look at it a little further down the road, uh, just for that reason.
Charlie Loughee: 14:19 Uh, it has a lot of history behind it, whereas a credentialing from a, uh, from an individual, a provider perspective, it doesn’t have as much. But yeah, I mean, I think, I think the opportunity for that’s going to be a very big, I think, you know, switching gears a bit, financial services, uh, if you look at financial services, one of their biggest costs, in fact it’s, it’s estimated to be up to $20 billion a year is around Kyc or know your customer. These are federally mandated regulations as it relates to understanding about understanding everything about the parties that are transacting. And in some cases where you have complex corporations or Llcs, it can get even more complicated and in and, and, uh, obscure. And so that process of, uh, of adhering to those money laundering rules around, uh, around knowing your customer is something that that industry is struggling with.
Charlie Loughee: 15:18 Well, it’s, if you think about it for a second, not all that different than when a medical record that’s passing between different entities and be able to know that information, uh, whether you’re on the, on the, on the claim side, or on the care side. So, uh, I think one of the things that’s always interesting is we’re beginning to see multiple industries have this problem. And when that happens, you begin to get a, if economies of scale. And that’s one of the areas that I think, you know, we as an organization are most excited about right now.
Bill Russell: 15:48 That’s interesting. So, you know, this is a new technology, so you have a lot of players sort of running at this space. And I did a little research prior to coming on the show and, and you know, there’s, I, you know, maybe 20 or so and now actual axuall, which is the company that you founded and you’re doing some work right now, but yet, you know, you have big players have IBM, you have Microsoft, you have some, uh, some startups that had been doing this awhile, like a pocket doc has been doing this for awhile and some others, um, give us an idea of the different approaches that the providers are, or different approaches that you’re seeing in the industry, in the healthcare industry from these providers.
Charlie Loughee: 16:35 Yeah. Well, you know, I, I would tell you that we’re not seeing widespread distribution or, or, or use of the technology yet, but we are beginning to see, uh, a lot of programs and pilots begin to form and with some big names behind them. Um, uh, you know, one good example is the synaptic network that’s led by United health. Optum I believe is engaged with that as well. Uh, you’ve got Humana in that you’ve got a ascension has, has announced that they’re a part of this, you know, they’re looking at how do we solve, again, some of the issues related to PR providing provider based provider directory information, uh, to make the process of selecting a physician and for that matter, managing some of the administrative components around it easier. Uh, you see IBM and PNC bank, which is an interesting combination. I think a anthem is in that as well.
Charlie Loughee: 17:30 Uh, in their focus more on the transactional side. How do you, how do you streamline or in some ways change the revenue cycle process, uh, for both large and and small, uh, health systems? Uh, cause we know that’s a challenge for many. So, uh, you know, you see that you see some particular place in the space, you also see a real prayer plays, right? And they’re coming in from outside of healthcare. They’re trying to apply. This is technology in many cases is open source, which I think is a good thing. Uh, because it does, it does provide a technology that, you know, we, we frankly are leveraging some of that. Um, and, and so I think it, but it’s still very early days. Uh, it, it’s, it’s gonna take some time to, uh, to flush all this out and, and, but just like everything else, I mean, this is technology, right?
Charlie Loughee: 18:21 It’s, it’s this, this, this, just in our first first phase, we’ll see how things evolve. Uh, I, I would tell you the thing that I’ve always felt was critical though, at least in certain industries and healthcare is, is by no means immune to this, is that for, for these solutions to really work, you have to have very strong subject matter expertise. Uh, because the way that these things are done, the regulations around it, the sensitivity of the data and just understanding the workflow is not something that a, a pure blockchain company of Silicon Valley is going to be privy to or understand. So, uh, you know, those partnerships with, with these entities, uh, these customers I think is going to be absolutely critical. I think, I think the leaders that are going to emerge out of this are going to be the ones that, that start from the beginning with a focus on is strategic relationship with its early customer base.
Bill Russell: 19:16 Yup. So you know, this, this is your second time through the Rodeo here. And I’m going to a little higher level, cause I know you can’t talk about specifics, some of the things you’re doing, but give us an idea. So you have this new technology and you’re, you’re trying to find where it best applies within healthcare. Um, you know, what does it look like? I mean, you find a couple of partners, you work with them, um, in, you do some pilots and you figure it out. I mean at, at that level, at a pretty high level, if, if somebody is an entrepreneur, like your, your daughter finally says, Hey, I want to do, you know, the next I want to do AI in healthcare. I mean, what’s your coaching for her? Is the first step to find partners or as the first step to find a, a handful of solutions were, where does she start?
Charlie Loughee: 20:05 I mean, you gotta I mean, that’s a great question, Bill. I think you have to, uh, at least my experience, right, is that you need to pave a little path. You can’t just show up to a healthcare system and say, Hey, guess what, uh, I’d like to be an entrepreneur. Do you have any great ideas that, uh, that I can spin out? And in the you’ll buy, right? They’ll, it will likely look at you and say, okay, well, uh, you know, why, well I don’t want to do that? Or if anything, uh, it’s, it’s likely that you, you’re not gonna have much of a leverage position or opportunity to really be seen as a, as a partner on a level playing field there. So I, I think you got to come to the table with a, you know, some experience, if you don’t have that, we didn’t have that little explorers in healthcare.
Charlie Loughee: 20:50 We had no experience, right? But we had at least experience of big data in telecommunications and broadband in a very large scale. So, uh, and they were having some problems that were somewhat similar to what we had solved in the past. So we had, you were able to at least create that connection, that bridge. And I think that’s going to be really important because you’ve got to put yourself in these, these organizations shoes. You know, they’re approached by some, uh, some, some tech person that says, Hey, I’ve, I, blockchain is great. I think it can change the way that, uh, you do, do your operations and that’s going to come under some degree of, uh, uh, you’re going to be a bit skeptical of that by, by nature, I think, uh, for the health systems though I think it’s really important that, that they look for individuals that in organizations that have not just from within and also outside in their local region, who have been able to demonstrate the ability to learn fast, to adapt to, uh, to partner in a way that isn’t about, okay, well we’ll learn everything about your tech, about your technology and your processes, and then see you later, right?
Charlie Loughee: 21:58 You’ve got to hold that partner all the way through the process and see that they’re there. They went on if it is an exit that they went on that exit, that health system. So I think, uh, I think, you know, it’s a parallel process. I think you’ve got to look at it from both perspectives. And My, you know, my, my, again, I, I’ll maintain that the, the really great technology is gonna be the technology that’s built in conjunction with these, with these customers. So in health systems, you know, we think of our, uh, our strategics and those organizations that would have invest alongside us from the very beginning. They’re in the garage with us, right? So to speak. Uh, they are working on developing this. When we think that builds a really strong relationship, it creates a lot of excitement and their organization, uh, it creates connection and it derisks the deal, right de risk, the investment for other, uh, other venture or angel investors as they get, as they get involved. So, you know, I think that that’s critically important, particularly in the Midwest where you typically raise, you know, a third to a quarter what you raise on the coasts and, and, and that’s how you, I think you compete in the, at least in this space.
Bill Russell: 23:08 Wow. A third to a quarter of what you raise on the coast. That’s interesting. The, uh, you know, changing gears a little bit here. So you spent about a decade or so in big data in healthcare, uh, with exploris. Uh, how are the challenges that you experienced with, with exploreris early on in healthcare? How are they similar to the things you’re seeing right now with blockchain?
Charlie Loughee: 23:32 Uh, you know, one area I think would be that we chose a technology at the time that we knew needed to be fairly revolutionary in terms of how it’s stored and processed data. And because just because of the cost, you know, we had learned in the last, last company that we built, we built on all standard off the shelf technology and a standard vendor technology. It was well established, it’ll work great for us. But when we looked at health care, it was an exponentially more complex problem. And so we’ve, we picked the technology, which was to do, but at the time, which was very, very new, uh, you wasn’t even one dot o yet. And so, uh, we had a lot of the challenges just figuring out how it works, uh, uh, documentation that maybe in some cases weren’t up to date because there just wasn’t enough people to keep it up to date.
Charlie Loughee: 24:23 Uh, it was a, we got very involved in that process. We became committers to the open source, which I think helped in that was a big challenge. We’re seeing parallels to that in, um, in blockchain. Right? And, you know, we’re focusing on the hyperledger family in particularly within a subset of that called indie. This is really new technology. And so you can’t just go find people that have this experience off the shelf. You’ve got to find people that have the ability to adapt to that, to this, uh, that have, that, that, that can see and understand and connect the dots quickly. And a lot of times that’s, you know, that’s folks that have a very strong, uh, computer science background, uh, to, to bring together on that. Um, and so, you know, we, we, we see, we certainly see that parallel, but the other parallel we see the same time.
Charlie Loughee: 25:10 So that’s the challenge. The other thing is, is you tend to get really interesting people that are excited about this really new stuff that want to come work with you. And especially if there’s a cause, especially if there’s an issue, there’s, there’s an opportunity to do something that really matters. You look at access and healthcare, it’s a big, big problem and we’re going to help solve this. You know, elasticity of workforce across the board is a big challenge. Uh, you look at freelancing, right? Uh, today, uh, today we’ll, today there’s a, there’s a lot, I think about 47 million people, uh, oh, sorry, 57 million people that do freelance today, a of some sort. And while a lot of that freelancing is on the lower end of some of the skills, you’re beginning to see more professional freelancing in health care is going to be no exception to that. So being able to expand healthcare, bring health care outside the brick and mortars can be really important. And the technology like this, if you have that kind of meaning and that kind of excitement with the company and you’ve got really, really bleeding edge technology to work on, you can find talent a little easier. And so, you know, We’re trying to ride that wave. We think that’s important in so far we’ve been able to attract some, some amazing talent.
Bill Russell: 26:25 Yeah. The um, one of the things since the last time you were on the show, we’ve, we’ve really tried to pare it back to just be a half hour so people can listen on their commute. So I’m going to try to close this up with, with one question I’m sort a curious on which is, um, you know, you spend a lot of time in the big data space. So I’m going to end that with a blockchain question. Big Data, you know, how mature are we with big data in health care and what’s holding us back or what’s the, what’s the biggest thing that is going to catapult us forward?
Charlie Loughee: 26:55 Yeah. I think probably one of the areas that’s held us back is understanding the meaning of the data that you collect. And much of that has to do with the context, right? Uh, how data is input into a system and what, how you abbreviate things. Uh, the sequence of things, how they go in a, especially in healthcare has a lot to do with not just that, the area of healthcare, but even more importantly the specialty and in some cases the delivery system. Right? And that is information that varies so greatly that what we found is unless you have people who, in addition to your, your, your technicians can bring the data in unless you have those data scientists and those informaticist that really understand the workflow and the meeting and the context of data in that organization. Uh, it’s, it’s very difficult to do. Um, and, and I think bill, we experienced that, right?
Charlie Loughee: 27:54 And working together, it’s probably one of the bigger challenges and it’s not just technology. Obviously I think where that will be augmented not replaced is when you start seeing more and more artificial intelligence and machine learning around identifying these patterns earlier, learning from them and then uh, applying that to the, sort of the backend curation of that. Now that is also going to, I think have a big impact on the front end as well. We’re learning more and more about the consequences of how data is entered into a system. And so I think that will begin to inform the next generation of Emrs as they get developed and those workflows get built so that we’re more mindful of the back end because when EMRs were originally built, we weren’t thinking about big data, we weren’t thinking about how data curation and now we have to. So, uh, I think that’s going to be where you see the greatest evolution and change.
Bill Russell: 28:48 Wow, that’s great insight and a, yeah, in our time together there was a, there, it’s so important to understand, and I think you said this, the context of the data when it was put in because it being put in at different points along the way. It could mean different things. The data, you know, and we used to have like data dictionaries would tell us only, you know, part of the story. It’s, it’s such, it’s such a complex problem. Uh, Charlie, as always, great conversation. Anything you want to leave the listeners with a way to follow you or keep up to date on what you guys are, are doing?
Charlie Loughee: 29:25 Yeah, I mean I think if, uh, obviously I keep uh, connected on linkedin and we’ll continue to publish some things out there. And now we’re in, still in incubation stage with axuall, uh, but uh, you can sign up for information around axuall at, at axuall.com and a, there is a sign up page there to learn as new things are announced. Again, that’s AXUALL.com. And uh, we look forward to seeing how this plays out. We’re excited about the opportunities there head.
Bill Russell: 29:56 Yeah, really, really exciting work. I’m looking forward to looking forward to following you guys and seeing what happens. So, um, you know, please come back every Friday for more great interviews with influencers and don’t forget every Tuesday and we take a look at the news, which is impacting health. It, if you’re enjoying the show, I want to support our missions, develop the next generation of health leaders. Uh, there’s really five ways you do that. Probably six, if I thought about it, share it with a peer, uh, shared on social media. Follow our social accounts, Linkedin, Twitter, Youtube, uh, send me feedback, questions, guests recommendations [email protected] Or you can subscribe to the newsletter. I think the sixth one would be if you want to become a sponsor, you could also contact me. This shows a, a production of This Week in Health It for more great content. Check out our website ThisWeekinHealthIt.com or the youtube channel at ThisWeekinHealthIt.com/video. Thanks for listening. That’s all for now.
Charlie Lougheed successful Health Tech entrepreneur and CEO of Axuall joins us to take a look at the emerging blockchain solutions in healthcare. We’re finally getting beyond the hype curve to a place of practical application. Hope you enjoy.