10,000 people gathered at Epic UGM this week, we talk with David Bensema M.D. to get first impressions.
Bill Russell: 00:08 Welcome to this week in health it influence where we discuss the influence of technology on health with the people who are making it happen. My name is Bill Russell, recovering healthcare CIO and creator of this week in health it a set of podcasts and videos dedicated to developing the next generation of health leaders. This podcast is sponsored by health lyrics. Professional athletes have coaches for every aspect of their life to improve performance. Yet many CIOs and health executives choose to go it alone. Technology has taken center stage for healthcare. Get a coach in your corner. Visit Health lyrics.com to schedule your free consultation. Two new services on the website. I want you to take a look at this week health insights for individuals looking to propel your health it career forward. Two emails a week designed to give you insights that are going to set you apart this week Held staff meetings, the other service. It’s for teams, for managers. Looking to introduce your team to new thinking from industry leaders to get the conversation started on the right foot. Today, we’re joined by Dr. David Benzema, retired ish physician CIO who is in the airport leaving from Madison as we speak, following, uh, the epic UGM 2019 Conference and we’re gonna join that show already in progress.
Bill Russell: 01:23 That’d be good. So, uh, so the obvious first question, you are at epic UGM 2019. The obvious first question is why does a retired physician CIO go to go to UGM?
David Bensema: 01:35 I was fortunate to be invited by an old friend of mine they can do, who was our director for our epic implementation to apply for the Ameritas program. And I applied and was accepted into the Ameritas program. It doesn’t mean a whole lot other than I’m available through epic. Should a system have issues and need somebody with my experience to help them sort it out or to temporarily cover something. And I thought I’d give it a shot, see what it looked like.
Bill Russell: 02:05 Wow. That sounds like a fantastic program. Did, did you, uh, take advantage of, uh, some of the people in the Ameritas program when you were doing your implementation?
David Bensema: 02:15 It didn’t exist when we were doing our implementation. It’s about two years old and still evolving. Um, one of the things we were talking about this time is trying to get awareness developed, not only with the BFFs, which are, you know, we the first call to epic, but, uh, with some of the folks who are on the front end of the relationships. So they help, um, organizations actually know, um, that this exists. So maybe we can prevent fires instead of kind of put, put out fires.
Bill Russell: 02:45 Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. So let’s jump right into the EGM. So you’ve gone to a few of these. So you’re a veteran, uh, and actually you did an epic implementation. So you’re, you’re a fan of epic cause your implementation went really well. I’ll give us an idea. So, so 40th anniversary for epic, Judy took us on a little path, a walk down memory lane, if you will. Give us an idea of um, you know, that, that talk and some of the key themes that were going on at the conference.
David Bensema: 03:14 Yeah. So Judy started at the very beginning. Um, the theme of this whole thing was of course, the year, summer of 79, that’s when it started. And she paralleled it with her daughter. who also started them and talked about the very early beginnings to even start a company, how they started the, um, bringing in of Carl, uh, this the simple group that they were at first and then how the organization kept growing. But that theme of starting with the patient at the center has been her, uh, driving force the entire career. Now, like you and I will do if we were getting our own biography or, uh, own history, uh, we, you know, we tell our story in a way that we want our story heard. And so I think, no, she doesn’t mess with, um, the facts of the history, but it’s Judy telling the story of epic and it’s ethics or baby. Um, so you take that into account and enjoy the ride.
Bill Russell: 04:17 Yeah. And she is a, uh, I’ll give her credit. She’s a really good storyteller. Um, and I, I don’t mean that like storytelling, like fiction story. I mean like she is, she is good. She’s good at communicating the story, especially, uh, around epic, which is something she’s so passionate about it, it’s so near and dear to her heart.
David Bensema: 04:36 Yeah. And one of the things I’ve noticed open the six years that I’ve been interacting, um, her comic timing continues to improve.
Bill Russell: 04:46 So what you’re saying is six years ago she would, she would tell a joke and not realize it was a joke until everyone started laughing and now, and
David Bensema: 04:53 little bit that way. Yeah. Or try to tell a joke and I’m the audience and almost needed cue cards. But now she’s, uh, got nice pauses and it’s pretty fun.
Bill Russell: 05:03 So they do the and we’re going to go back to that talk a little bit cause she said some things that were pretty interesting, but they do the usual, uh, the usual stuff where they really celebrate the things that people are doing with Epic and give us an idea of what are some of the things that they celebrated, what are some of the things that people are doing with the, with the epic platform.
David Bensema: 05:25 Yeah. So, um, every year, of course they celebrate, um, those who achieved himss level seven. Um, and now of course we’re to encourage people to stay up with their updates and to utilize their epic, uh, resources to the maximum extent they have the star program. So they celebrate the a nine and w single a 10 star, a winners. And then, uh, the rest was some of the top tens of accomplishments, you know, uh, uh, my target price estimates in this day of, um, price transparency and acquirements to posting our carriage masters, um, patients being able to go on their own and get an estimate for what the procedure would cost at our institution is a unique, um, opportunity. Uh, one of the things that I like to of course was they celebrated Dr. Mona Hanna-Attisha and her use of epic to discover the issue with the lead in the water in Flint, Michigan. Um, and then I think the other one that was pretty solid was the, um, work by our colleagues at Henry Ford and the Ed triage protocol that identify as possible human trafficking victims. Um, obviously a huge and tragic issue in, um, the United States still. And, uh, they have a protocol that helps to identify something special.
Bill Russell: 06:51 Yeah, that’s really a really interesting effect. Fact, Judy at one point said, uh, innovation is great but uh, you know, first ready to imitation. And so, you know, and when you think about that, there were, so you know, that the Henry for Henry Ford, a triage around human trafficking, the work around Flint, Michigan, the price estimates on my chart there, there was just a whole bunch of really neat things highlighted. And I think sometimes we think about innovation and we have to go out and build a little that we may not need to do that.
David Bensema: 07:30 And that’s been kind of continued through meeting. I think, you know, the maturation of the market, um, meaningful use brolgas two e h rs and now you have a lot of systems that have been on it long enough that some of the presentations are folks saying, okay, you know, we, we got the tools now understand the tools that let’s actually use them. And so I think some of the work that’s been done is pretty remarkable. Um, the last session I went to was called investigate, investigate work eight physician advisors, four hospitals, one in vascular in mainline health. And Philadelphia is utilizing position advisors for concurrent Chart Review and review of recent discharges or um, making sure that they have the appropriate documentation, the appropriate indications for inpatient versus observation stays. And it’s not that any of this is market science, but it’s just the position leader in this was using the tools in a unique and more functional way. And so you can see the maturation occurring.
Bill Russell: 08:42 Yeah. So 10,000 people at this conference and then I’m going to get five, five questions that, you know, my clients and, and, and um, you know, guests are really at, we’re asking to the meeting, uh, with you, uh, you know, things around quarterly updates, MNA activity and those kind of things. But you know, 10,000 people, there’s this conference. If you had to stack it up against all the other conferences, is this really the the one you have to go to? If you’re an epic shop?
David Bensema: 09:11 I think you’d have to have some people go to it. Um, I would actually say as a CIO, probably not as much as, um, once upon a time. Um, I think though that your directors, you need them to go and see some of the new stuff that’s going on. I hear some of the innovative uses. Um, but you know, or myself, there’s other things like Scott spells, chime that I think would be better uses of the limited of time that CIO has. Um, but yeah, I put it up against anybody for that and I’m the director to executive director level.
Bill Russell: 09:48 Yeah, I was, I was looking at the fall schedule with regard to, uh, to conferences and things that are going on. And uh, it, it, it really is kind of crazy how many, how many, uh, conferences there are this fall. All right. So let’s, let’s get into the questions that, that people are interested in. Uh, you know, have been talking about it within the health it space. So the first thing is, uh, the push to foundation and a quarterly updates. I think everyone understands the reason for the push to foundation. Uh, I think the question people are asking is how are we going to be able to do this and how’s epic gonna help us to, uh, to do this? You want us to do it? How are we gonna do it?
David Bensema: 10:28 Yeah, it’s, so it was interesting because talking to a number of, uh, folks, um, there’s doing a update minus one approach, so they may be doing quarterly, but they’re not taking the one that’s the current release. The taking the one just prior, um, letting somebody else have any of these snafu or the little glitches, um, with the quarterly updates or some glitches are not as numerous simply because of the volume of, um, enhancements or changes or not quite as large as when Epic was, every 18 months update. But I think that’s one approach that some are taking. I think others have found out that governance was not just for their implementation. They need um, governance to continue to support alignment of resources and kind of a bend outbreak governance structure. We know that, you know, you’ve got to have some flexibility to adjust. You really have to stick to your guns.
David Bensema: 11:23 You can’t get off of the foundation to hearken, maintaining a current policy with epic and doing upgrades. It’s so much more difficult if you have summarized too much. And then the other is I think teams are starting to learn, have the flexibility to comply, to combine their application teams to better fit, um, uh, the updates, um, and the enhancements that are coming. So you’re seeing more streamlined work for a lot of good systems that have recognized that cadence needs cadence and somebody else will readily resolute. You’ve met and sometimes they have work groups that combined those folks and the clinical books.
Bill Russell: 12:06 Yeah, people are generally from an IT perspective, you sit back and you have a conversation around complexity of a system. And if it is this complex, it’s hard to maintain those systems in. The cost just goes up. And the, uh, and the, uh, reliability, the system goes down as you increase the complexity. So the push to foundation, almost everybody in it understand they’re just really struggling with, okay, how am I going to be able, how am I going to start taking quarterly updates? Some of these people were taking, you know, annual updates or even every, or even longer than that if they could get by with them and it, some of them are looking at their distance from where they’re at to foundation is pretty significant and represents an awful lot of work around customer, customizing the, uh, the products around their workflows and their solutions that it’s, if this going to be a hard, it’s going to be, it’s going to be a heavy lift for some organizations.
David Bensema: 13:05 Yeah. I think, you know, the guys younger example, um, and nominal, wonderful system, but they customize tremendously and they made a decision to go back to foundation and there was a lot of disgruntlement. We managed a lot of the distress. A lot of folks were having other cheese moved, they lost their personalized order sets, et cetera. Um, but once they got through it, you’re starting to see them come out on the other end with some improved results with their pop health, um, which they already were good at. Then present results there and some, uh, improvements in their ability to track quality measures for, um, the, uh, outcomes based reimbursement models that they’re involved in. So I think, you know, value group for me is a good example of why you had to do it and how you can do it. And yet it’s gonna hurt like crazy while you do it,
Bill Russell: 14:02 but you just do it well. And if you have the money to do it, I guess, it does take a take some, some, uh, some energy to do it. Let’s talk about an m and a. So some of the organizations I’ve been talking to are, uh, you know, in the throws of MNA. So there’s two aspects of that. One is, um, if you are in the acquisition mode, you take a, uh, health system, uh, like Jefferson that, you know, just agreed to pick up the children’s hospital. Plus they have other acquisitions going on around there. They’re, they’re an epic shop and you have similar epic shops that they’re acquiring, but still, it maybe not their case, but in a lot of these cases, you’re looking at 12 to 18 months, uh, integrations at these, uh, of these various health systems, uh, into a single build and a, a standard set of workflows and you start stacking those up, you end up with an awful lot of work back to back to back around, um, you know, even an epic to epic migration. So, you know, I, I know that epic talking about
David Bensema: 15:06 even more work
Bill Russell: 15:07 yeah, well, in fact it’s interesting because it’s almost a, in some cases it’s, it, it’s a new build, which is amazing. So,
David Bensema: 15:17 you know, one of the things that Providence Saint Joseph is pointing out is, um, the expectation of data conversion is so much higher on an epic, epic, epic. Um, but if you got two different instances of ethics, that transfer of, um, data is still complex, but you cannot skimp on it. Um, and you can’t skip the standard install steps just because it’s epic, epic. You Still gonna follow the rule books. Um, otherwise you get in trouble and you’d have huge disappointment for the group that’s being brought onto the mother ships or whatever version of epic you’re bringing everyone on to. Um, epics recognizes they’re um, providing some new tools and kind of pre-work phase, um, uh, playbook, which is really looking at, you know, how do you have to look at the acquisition and before you even signed the papers, look at the deficits in their it shop, the opportunities in the it shop, what’s going to have you please tell me who the Peter, um, or GPU is, are you gonna have to buy, et Cetera and have a realistic view before you get going.
David Bensema: 16:22 And epic didn’t provide you that type of awareness. They did certainly if you were going to brand new installation and now they’re doing it with these acquisitions and the other is an operational playbook for merger acquisitions and consolidations. And then finally it’s specific epic to epic conversion toolkit. Recognizing that people thought it was going to be a little easier like this and final two systems talk about, and one in fact was in trouble cause they were in violation of their own policy. You gotta make sure that all of your policies are updated to be in coherence with whatever epic build you’re going to.
Speaker 5: 17:04 Okay.
Bill Russell: 17:04 Interesting. So they’re, they’re introducing a lot of things in that area of m and a, and they, and they, we as an industry have been asking for this kind of help because there’s just an awful lot of this work going on and their, their involvement is, is, uh, is going to be welcome I would think in this space. Okay. So, you know, um, you know, one of the things that came up in Judy’s, uh, um, I’m trying to think. So I have the cost of running epic. I have a clinician usability and, and combating burnout. I have, uh, integrating additional data sources, genomics, uh, social determinants of health and claims data, and I have inter-operability. So of those four topics, which one would you like to start?
David Bensema: 17:48 Um, well, why don’t we go to coalition usability, combating burnout? Because I think one of the areas that to me is totally remarkable. Their partnerships, probably too strong a word, but the collaboration with class and the arch collaborative. Um, the fact that epic is working in a class and I know, you know, some people would say, well that may decrease on the classes credibility, but I don’t think it does. I think it’s just a recognition on their part that such a large percentage of the whole systems and the physician world are on epic, that they ought to pay attention. Um, but that arch collaborative is looking at how are physicians using it. Who’s proficient? Uh, does proficiency really translate to satisfaction? And does satifiaction translate to not burnt out. And they’re finding some interesting data that I think there can be reporting soon. But it’s kind of a conundrum because sometimes the most proficient physicians are the busiest physicians and we know the busiest positions tend to be the burned out physicians. So they’re, they’re finding some areas for deeper dives. Find out is this really cause and effect for one of our friends from Mayo appropriately brought up, you know, just because you’re seeing something just like any other research, you can’t claim cause and effect, they look deeper. But I think that’s a really neat area and a big step forward that epics recognized. They’ve got to deal with, um, clinician burnout, not just physicians, but APRN nursing has got to figure out how to help support these folks and collaborating with classes to start.
Bill Russell: 19:28 Yeah. And their general approach is every, they’re a very prescriptive organization, which we’ve talked about before. And so they do have some pool. They will be able to go in there and say, Hey, let’s talk about, let’s talk about these notes. Let’s talk about those workflows. And they will don’t, unlike even like a CIO potentially trying to bring some of this stuff up and address it within the health system, epic has cloud. They’re able to, they’re able to do things on a scale that, uh, and get things started at a scale that, uh, even even some CIOs cant. So it’s,
David Bensema: 20:02 Oh yeah, yeah. It is overwhelming. And you know when one of Judy’s presentation points that fits in here is that with Kaboodle and with the, uh, artificial intelligence programs, um, they now have 8 million patient records from the early adopters already in Moodle and uh, PV Ar, AI evaluation. But that number goes up to 230 million when you get majority of the epic systems utilizing it, if they really get to that, that’s an amazing database.
Bill Russell: 20:35 Yeah, it is. And so is it, was that the cosmos stuff she was on?
David Bensema: 20:40 Yup. How’s most, um, you know, kicking up from caboodle to cosmos for the AI? Yup.
Bill Russell: 20:46 Yeah. I’m going have to have somebody to run me through.
David Bensema: 20:51 Are we good though? Is the data warehouse caboodle is an epic supply product that visualizes and utilizes some of this data, providing some reporting and then cosmos takes all of this plus other things that you can import, um, in the future. Not all in portable at the moment, but the idea is that then cosmos takes all that and can apply AI, um, to this data and come out with new insights. And again, 230 million records, you start to have some amazing, um, capacity for developing new insights. Okay.
Bill Russell: 21:30 Yeah. I, so one of the ones I do want it to hit make sure we hit on this show is the cost of running epics. So, uh, the question becomes how do we maximize the use of epic and reduce the overall percentage of the budget that epic is taking up right now? Uh, I know that some CIO has given me some significant percentages that they say, look, before I start the month eight, you know, better than half of my it budget is going to running this one system. And that’s okay. Except they have another 180 to run as well as, you know, new projects and other things that are going on. So did, did epic address that at all? Did they, you know, I know that they’ve tried things in the past
David Bensema: 22:10 and Carl did a, did a reasonable job of addressing it in his, uh, presentation in that he was talking about the fact that epic has continued to grow the number of modules and functionality. And, uh, the, the variety of things that it can address and systems have to be aware that if they’re going to be on epic, they’re paying for that and they’re paying for that kind of upkeep. Um, but if they have other products that are duplicative, more products that they’ve not used, but they’re still paying for standard maintenance, um, they need to start looking at archiving. And, um, he didn’t use the phrase, but one of my, uh, friends, um, sitting at the table, we use the phrase gotta clean out the attic. Um, there’s a lot of stuff that’s just sitting up there and cost and money, um, that you may be able to get rid of the few and be the adoptee. If epic can do it, we’re going to use it, um, mentality and, but you’ve got to get your portfolio of applications prim. Um, it’s still gonna be expensive for a smaller system, particularly represents a big, big chunk of your budget.
Bill Russell: 23:18 Yeah, it’s interesting. I’m working on an archive, a project, a consulting project right now for somebody who has, I’m doing the research. What I’m finding is a bunch of health systems, instead of investing in an archive solution, which is a fraction of the cost they keep amrs running for, uh, you know, multiple years. I mean, you can go back and go, I guess like, what’s this McKesson system? Well, that’s our old EHR. Well, how long has it been running? It’s like, well, I don’t know. It’s been running for this. Are you still paying? Yes, we’re still paying license. I’m like, you know, at a fraction of the cost. And you just multiply that out. There’s like, there’s like 50 of those and you drop it in archive solution and can just do the work and you can shut those things off. And that’s, I guess one of the things they’re saying is, uh, and, and this is their inner workings. Folks, I think you told me, he said at this at the meeting, but he says it to anyone here, which is, uh, you know, they’re an epic shop and, uh, you know, if you’re going to come and knock on his door and try to sell him something, uh, just know that if epic does it, that’s what he’s going to do. And that’s, especially for small health systems, that’s probably the right way to go. Absolutely the right way to go.
David Bensema: 24:27 Yeah. And you know, and, and I heard the argument and I agree with the argument that some things that epic is doing, they’re not doing optimally or as well as some of the third party softwares out there. But the one thing you can trust, the epic community will get them being better and epic iterates as fast as any of the hrs can. They just have this amazing large group of talented people.
Bill Russell: 24:52 Yeah. And that’s, that sort of gets to, uh, you know, the, the, uh, epic view of the world is epic can do, uh, epic can do it all for the health system. I mean, they, they wouldn’t say it at all, but they would say the things they do, they do well and you should rely on us to do those things. Um, but,
David Bensema: 25:11 and four years ago I heard Judy say, um, you know, if we can’t do it, well we don’t do it. And there are some things she said at that time, she said, there are some things I simply don’t do. Um, they’re doing more and more. But yeah, their, their goal was to do them excellently. And, um, you know, we can take any one of the current EHR is, and particularly my physician colleagues or we can just, you know, tear them up species, um, because they’re not where we want them to be, but no one getting there, any pasture than epic. And there are other good systems I think that Epic and Cerner or I’m making some progress, but you know, epics definitly,to be contended with.
Bill Russell: 25:52 So the overall cost of this stuff is just going to drive, uh, drive a, a stake in, uh, best of breed. Best of breed is going to become one of those things that you just can’t afford to do. Uh, and uh, I don’t know.
David Bensema: 26:05 Yeah, it’s gonna be harder and harder. I think, you know, there’s a quote point and things like that where they have their niche and non that provide that interoperability component. I think those are the products that are going to thrive. But anyone who goes practically at a module in ethic is going to have a hard time.
Bill Russell: 26:27 So one of the, um, one of the hot topics on Twitter, uh, around the conference was Judy’s comments on information blocking and, um, and, and the, uh, you know, the, the, in API APIs and the stuff that you’re, you’re getting out of o and C and, um, and you know, it’s really falling into two camps. It’s falling into one camp, which is to say, hey, you know, we’re gonna have a, we’re gonna have a privacy thing here. So we’ve got to protect that the patients are gonna have a privacy thing. And then you have really, I, I’d say it would, it feels to me is like the innovation community is saying, uh, you know, that’s a really convenient place to be to say, Hey, you know, uh, trust epic, we’re going to control the flow of information and you have to pay us to get the information and what not.
Bill Russell: 27:16 And so it’s, it’s, I, I again, I didn’t go to the conference so I didn’t hear the quotes directly, but, uh, if you look at it on Twitter, you’re seeing some pretty interesting responses to it. No one doubts. Um, you know, because epic has, has done a phenomenal job with their, uh, sharing platform and, and, uh, amassing those records, making them available for, uh, research and other things. Um, but you have this innovation community over here to saying, Hey, let, let me, let me take a crack at some of this stuff. Just make this stuff available to be of APS. Can you give us an idea of what are some of the things she said? And put it, put it in context. So you know, people you know, will understand where she was coming from.
David Bensema: 27:58 Yeah. So I think, um, we have to start with the fact that we know, um, has always had a vision and it’s a remarkable vision. Um, and look at where it’s brought her since 79. Um, that being said to that vision is patient at center, but epic surrounding the patient more and more and more and more layers, um, until epic is the galaxy of care for the patients. Um, and ethic is everywhere. Um, that’s our vision. Uh, that’s going to mean that she’s going to protect it very much and not appreciate, uh, external intrusion. So when you hear the narrative and you take the quotes in context, you recognize that it really is just duty. Um, being, um, herself, um, just making sure that she helps us to understand that she’s got a vision for epic helping everybody.
Bill Russell: 28:55 No, actually she’s, she’s protecting the patient.
David Bensema: 28:58 She’s protecting the patient. Then that’s, that’s our heart for it. But it comes across, um, as she’s walking other people or, or sending off other people. And more concerning is maybe the fact that she’s, um, putting yourself in opposition to government and the, uh, that’s a difficult position to put yourself in. And maybe there’s a better way than in quite as, um, oppositional and maybe it’s getting in the room and helping to develop, uh, the path forward for everybody. Uh, participating in that. And you know, I don’t know if that’s going to be a possibility, but I think, you know, in the, I live in and you know that I live in the Ama and other organized medicine, we’ve gotta be in the room and I know the ama has gotten pilloried for being, staying at the table in 2009, but you know, better to be in the room and continue to stay in the discussions in my mind. Um, then to try to oppose, um, you know, the, the irresistible force.
Bill Russell: 30:05 Yeah, I would, there’s a couple things that, you know, I would say to her, um, advisers and that is, uh, you know, look back at history and see the people that have stood up to the federal government and how they have fared, uh, is the first thing I would say before your, you know, before you’re really exercising Judy, to get, you know, the entire force of not only epic but the epic community, uh, to, uh, wage war with the federal government. The second thing is understand, uh, I, I mean, I, I hope, and I think she does understand that she’s putting your, her clients in an interesting position because yes, they’re, they’re epic clients and they appreciate everything that epic does for their communities and for them. But onc is their largest payer. I mean, I can’t think of a health system where the ONC isn’t their largest payer.
Bill Russell: 30:52 So you, you have to be careful not to put people in a f between a rock and a hard place. And the other thing is, I would say epic has such a great opportunity to lead here. It’s, it is just the outstanding that they could, they could go into the room and if they could see eye to eye with a, uh, with a secretary Azar and Seema Verma and, and the rest, um, he, you know, I, those conversations would be really interesting. I think we could, uh, I know that, you know, in Judy’s world they are moving healthcare forward and they are moving healthcare phones. But I think there’s still so much more opportunity. And the reality is that the more people you involve, the more people you can, uh, the more smart people that you allow to try to solve a problem, you’re just gonna, you’re gonna end up with more solutions, more opportunities for solutions. That’s, I don’t know, that’s more commentary than anything else.
David Bensema: 31:47 Yeah. But I think the other thing is people on the other side of the issue have, there’s a risk in distracting them from the amazing things that are going on. You know, the MyChart bedside on the phone. Because again, back to the consumer centricity, getting that amount of information and the, just the elegance of the information that can now be presented to the patient at the bedside. Um, family can track who’s been at the bedside. Um, the, my chart care companion, um, coming out that’s gonna, you know, help patients with reminders for the medications. And I know that’s competing against somebody else’s product cause there’s other products that you can get apps that you can get. This was integrated with the health record that the patient’s dependent on. So, um, patient initiated care everywhere, albeit in 2020. All those things are coming out happy together for not epic EHR, which is a, you know, it’d been in their operability. I’m bored. People will get distracted. Yeah. They see the opposition and they stopped looking. And I think that’s something that I would advise anyone who’s a supporter of the epic product to say, Hey, we want to make sure that people know this is going on. This is good for patients, this is good for communication with other clinicians. Um, let’s not lose that by again, thinking on the irresistible
Bill Russell: 33:14 and, uh, and I hope we did that on this show. I, if we highlighted, you know, enough of the good things that came, I came out of the conference that, you know, six stated on this one thing people like to get fixated on, on uh, on the, on the one thing. But there’s, there’s a lot of exciting and positive things coming out of the conference.
David Bensema: 33:37 To me, the key takeaway of the conference if anyone’s going to hear one thing, is that there’s a maturation in the systems on epic to where they are now starting to move forward with real case patient care initiatives and real clinician here initiatives that we just didn’t have a chance to get our head up and do when we were busy putting in the EHR hours and meeting the um, our pain, our pain, uh, uh, measures of meaningful use. There is now real movement that I think is going to help us move to a value based and quality outcomes oriented system. And that’s what people ought to take away. I think this was that tipping point in the user group meeting to where you’re starting to see some real progress in areas that at least me as a physician and me as a patient matter.
Bill Russell: 34:30 I want to thank David for taking the time, uh, before he gets on the plane and heads back from Madison to spend a few minutes with us to fill us in on the UGM conference this year. Uh, it’s always great to have him on the show and I really appreciate him taking the time. Uh, please come back every Friday for more great interviews with influencers. And don’t forget every Tuesday we take a look at the news, which is impacting health It. The show is a production of this week in health it for more great content and you check out the website at this week health.com. You check out the youtube channel this week health.com at the top, at the menu, you can click on the youtube link to get to the youtube channel. Uh, keep the feedback coming [email protected], uh, good, better and different. It all helps to make the show better and to make it more relevant for you. Ah, thanks for listening. That’s all for now.
10,000 people gathered at Epic UGM this week, we talk with David Bensema M.D. to get first impressions.