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Paddy Padmanabhan and I catch up and discuss progress in digital health. We don’t always agree but Paddy makes me think about what I believe about how Digital Health will play out in healthcare. Hope you enjoy.

Transcript
Bill Russell:

Today in health, it interviews from the chime

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conference in San Diego.

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My name is bill Russell.

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I'm a former CIO for a 16 hospital system and creator of this week in health.

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It a channel dedicated to keeping health it staff current and engaged.

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Just a quick reminder.

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I wouldn't be dropping interviews over the next couple of days and into

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next week from the chime conference.

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And then I'm going to have some more interviews from the next conference I

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want to be going to, and then eventually I'll get back to Florida and to the studio

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where we'll start looking at the news.

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Once again.

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Hope you enjoy this interview.

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Another interview from the chime fall forum and we have Patty . Am

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I getting your name right?

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Absolutely.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

You're as close as it can.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

As close as you want to

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be.

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Uh, I use Domo consulting, but really you are a digital health leader.

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You're you do a lot of conversations around digital health.

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A lot of publications write a lot of articles around digital health.

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So that's the topic I'd like to.

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Sure if you're offering that.

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So what's, so what's top of mind at this conference, you've had some conversations

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you've been here for a day or so, so,

Paddy Padmanabhan:

well, the F the first thing on everybody's mind is

Paddy Padmanabhan:

relief and having the opportunity to come out and meet people.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

I can say I can speak for myself that, uh, it's been a long time since we got

Paddy Padmanabhan:

out and got to meet our colleagues.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

And in many way, chime is like an extended family to many of us, the chime community.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

So it's wonderful to be here.

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So I would say top of mind, Uh, sense of getting back together for people and

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meeting your colleagues in person after such a long time after what we've all

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been through for the last 18 months or so?

Paddy Padmanabhan:

Well, business wise, I think, uh, you know, it seems to me from the

Paddy Padmanabhan:

conversations that I'm having that over the last 18 months, things have

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moved forward significantly from a digital transformation standpoint.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

Obviously the, the, the, the earliest.

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Was the pandemic itself, but then there, the early response to the pandemic,

Paddy Padmanabhan:

which was more of a crisis response has given way to a more thoughtful

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transformation approach that builds on whatever foundations were laid

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prior to the pandemic and whatever investments were made subsequent to

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the kind of, so we are moving now into a new phase is what I feel.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

And the general sense I get is there's a lot to be done and it's just.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

It's just the opportunity is huge.

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So early on it was reactive, but we saw a lot of really cool things.

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We saw.

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We saw chatbots deployed for, uh, for diagnosis of COVID.

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We saw, um, uh, new, new kinds of, uh, tele-health, uh, modalities sort of,

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sort of pop up from a safety standpoint.

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We went to create that, that safe distance and whatnot.

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Um, but a lot of this stuff was done.

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Okay, we need this tomorrow.

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Now we'd been working on it for some years, but still we were

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able to stand some things up.

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I mean, how much are we having to go back and rethink some of the things

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we did in the pandemic and really laid down a, a digital, let's say a

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foundation for digital, or what's the foundation for digital already there

Paddy Padmanabhan:

from a technology standpoint?

Paddy Padmanabhan:

I think, uh, there's a lot that has been accomplished in terms of

Paddy Padmanabhan:

putting in the new technologies.

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And I'd say this.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

If I was to talk about the unfinished business or the work in progress,

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they would talk about two things.

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One is making all these technology pieces work together

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well, making it all seamless.

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And the other part of it is helping people adopt and use the technologies.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

I think one of the big concerns on the minds of my clients and

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others that I talked to is how do you get people to use it?

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And actually the more recent data seems to suggest that.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

Bit of a pullback and the use of the tele-health and the virtual care

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modalities or whatever reason, but, uh,

Bill Russell:

yeah.

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So are we worried about, so you and I go back and forth on social

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media and a lot of times it's, it's apple, Amazon, you know, the big

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players, what are they going to do?

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Are our health system still keeping an eye out for the Walmarts?

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The CVS is in the others,

Paddy Padmanabhan:

the competitive landscape for health city.

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Is the Walmarts of the Syria assists, the big corporations that are

Paddy Padmanabhan:

traditionally not traditionally, not healthcare organizations.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

And then you've got the big tech firms.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

You mentioned Amazon and Google apple, and then you've got the digital

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first, you know, healthcare providers.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

They go the one medicals on the Oak street, health of the world.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

What our health system.

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Why do I think they're more worried about the CVS and the Walmarts than

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they are, frankly, about Microsoft or.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

Amazon, maybe because Amazon's crossed the Rubicon from being a

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technology provider into more of a healthcare service provider.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

But as you know, I've written about this, you know, the outcome is far from

Paddy Padmanabhan:

foretold in terms of their success.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

At this point, they

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do have a long view though.

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I mean, and the thing is Amazon doesn't have to be successful in all the things.

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I mean, they're going to be, it'll be interesting to see in the

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let's just call it the PBM space.

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Let's call it the, uh, the, the medication.

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I mean, th their acquisition seems like, seems like a pretty solid

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foundation from which to build on.

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It builds on their, their current capabilities and they can do those things.

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But is that really a tech player or is that more of a logistics play

Paddy Padmanabhan:

for that?

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You know, the Amazon bets are kind of all over the place.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

They are all over the place.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

I don't see a

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where you at the health conference.

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I was not, but if you go through their booth, Hey, would you

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like to talk to Amazon care?

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Would you like to talk to AWS?

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Would you like what data would they were?

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Well,

Paddy Padmanabhan:

here's the thing that I'd asked you, this question, is there one

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individual in Amazon that you can think of who is kind of like the healthcare

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person?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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There, there used to be, but he went to work for Phillips.

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So I don't know.

Bill Russell:

Okay.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

I don't know that there is such an annuity, but I do

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know that there are several individuals who are all among themselves driving.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

Initiatives.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

Yeah.

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Amazon carries with somebody, the PillPack tenders with somebody else.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

God knows what else, you know, in Amazon.

Bill Russell:

Well, and that's what we're seeing.

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Yeah.

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Apple is Apple's the most recent one with the article and whatnot.

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And, uh, there doesn't seem to be, first of all, the CEO

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is the CEO of apple, correct?

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They're not the CPE CEO of apple health.

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Correct.

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So how much of his time is actually spent thinking about the, I've

Paddy Padmanabhan:

asked this exact same question in my writings, you know what.

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Healthcare is at best a part-time job for the CEO of any of these large

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corporations and mind you, the new look at the world from their standpoint, their

Paddy Padmanabhan:

opportunity in healthcare may be huge, but at the present moment, they may have

Paddy Padmanabhan:

much bigger things going on that are, you know, dominating their attention.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

But don't

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the, the promise of those companies.

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Is with AWS.

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You have, you have a great, great access to that technology, the

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data technology, the AI with Google, you have access to that.

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I mean, clearly they've, they're phenomenal at the data side and whatnot.

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Microsoft is phenomenal at the data side, Microsoft, probably a different story

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because they're, they're just an enabler.

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Yeah.

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I don't think they have any healthcare aspirations per

Paddy Padmanabhan:

se.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

Well, their healthcare story is the cloud story.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

You know, the workplace collaboration story and

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everybody who's here has a relationship.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

Everybody has a relationship with them.

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And then as they make acquisitions, like no-one's, I just came out of

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this session with nuance, you know?

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So who knows what that is?

Paddy Padmanabhan:

So they're in that session, that session was titled digital front doors nuance is,

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you know, in the digital front door space.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

So is Microsoft also in the digital front.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

That's right.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

So, uh, you could not, but then, you know, with all of these large

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companies, there's always multiple bets.

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You know, you talk about Amazon, Amazon has a half a dozen things.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

We've got Alex, or they've got Amazon care, they've got the cloud

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business, which is doing very well.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

They've got the PillPack business who knows what else is going to come up.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

And again, we've also seen a little bit of a pullback by these big tech firms.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

Recently, Google closed its healthcare business.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

Officially there is no health business, especially after David

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Feinberg left and went on to.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

And then now you've got apple, apple shut down their primary care

Paddy Padmanabhan:

business, which was anywhere meant to be a kind of pilot of some kind.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

Right.

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But Amazon's the one that's sticking it through.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

And then there are others who are, you know, who knows what Salesforce

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is going to do for it.

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So we have to be clear just carrying the salvo, got up there last week and said,

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we're still, we're still in healthcare.

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We're doing this, we're doing this or that.

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So she rattled off the half dozen things that they are continuing to do.

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And her thing is, look, we're we're in information.

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And more people seek care from Google still today than anywhere else.

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And so they're trying to utilize their position to really direct

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people in the right, get the right information to them serve public health.

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It used to be when we started the pandemic, we had to go to certain sites

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to search this, some of these statistics.

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And I find now I can just go and say, yep, this guy, San Diego county tell

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me the COVID statistics said, Google.

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Hold it all together.

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That's what they do.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

Yeah.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

And again, like you said earlier on, well, it's a long game

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for, for these big tech firms.

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They have deep pockets.

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It doesn't mean though that they're going to stick with a

Paddy Padmanabhan:

losing proposition for too long.

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If something doesn't work, they'll probably kill it, take the learnings

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from it and put it into something else and then start the next iteration.

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And they have the, they have the, well, they have the money.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

And if they want to do something, they can stick around long enough to do it.

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I mean, just think of the amount of cash that apple is sitting by.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

It's just unbelievable.

Bill Russell:

All of them are sitting on top of the Fairmount.

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So if people are engaged, Dame-o consulting, what,

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what do you guys do for we?

Paddy Padmanabhan:

Uh, we help, we work mostly with CEOs, chief digital

Paddy Padmanabhan:

officers and C-suite executives who are responsible for the digital

Paddy Padmanabhan:

transformation of their organization.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

Very deeply focused on the health system space.

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So that's where most of our work is.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

So we'll help with digital strategy, helping develop digital transformation,

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roadmaps, prioritizing initiatives, building business cases for them

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helping with technology, partner selection, and also the ongoing

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governance of digital programs.

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So that's kind of what we do.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

We come at it from a technology standpoint, but in the context of

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digital transformation, which is very, very much tech enabled as we speak

Bill Russell:

the big and the lock is still.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

Uh, big unlock.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

Thank you for mentioning that the podcast, just a hindrance hit a hundred episodes.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

So kind of fantastic kicked about, I know how hard

Bill Russell:

that is by the way.

Bill Russell:

That's not

Paddy Padmanabhan:

as easy as what people think.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

Yeah, I, yeah.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

And I've been really, really fortunate to have some great guests on the show.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

So yeah, I mean, these are a really thoughtful conversations.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

I learned a lot from those conversations and I hope that

Paddy Padmanabhan:

the listeners learn something.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

You know, I was, I was sitting with, uh, some people at breakfast today.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

I didn't know them at all, but they knew who I was because

Paddy Padmanabhan:

I listened to my podcast.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

So I'm probably the

Bill Russell:

same thing.

Bill Russell:

Yeah.

Bill Russell:

Thank you both.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

First of all, I thank you for all the work that you do.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

I'm an avid follower of all of your work on social media and continue

Paddy Padmanabhan:

to keep those snarky comments.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

Comment.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

It's been

Bill Russell:

exciting.

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I think it does help the industry.

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When we go back and forth, people see, Hey, there's

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potentially different challenges.

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The

Paddy Padmanabhan:

group thing, challenge the group thing.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

I'm reading this book called the contrarian, watch the buck, Peter Thiel.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

So you can be the country.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

I didn't know.

Bill Russell:

Well, if only I had as much money as Peter's deal, I think

Bill Russell:

I could be contrary and on anything.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

We'll see.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

All right, thanks.

Paddy Padmanabhan:

Thank you.

Bill Russell:

Don't forget to check back as we have more of these interviews

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